The Audacity of Trotsky

In War Communism and Terrorism published by Trotsky that year he said The unions should discipline the workers and teach them to place the interests of production above their own needs and demands. It is impossible to distinguish between these policies and the labour policies of Stalin.




And I thought he was decent.

Killuminati wrote:

In War Communism and Terrorism published by Trotsky that year he said The unions should discipline the workers and teach them to place the interests of production above their own needs and demands. It is impossible to distinguish between these policies and the labour policies of Stalin.

Alright, let's not make Trotsky out to be anything near Stalin. I know, Trotsky killed our peeps, and fuck him for it. But hey, he took an ice-pick to the head. Not only that, he forgave the guy (sorta) and saved him from being gunned down. And it's not like you cannot find some merit in this quote. Yes, i can see how this is wrong, but discipline is necessary for the success of the revolution. But it's not the unions who should discipline the workers, it's the workers who should discipline themselves.

And just to add one thing, if the production is in the hands of the people, and not the state (i know Trotsky's stance differs from ours in this respect), then the interests of production are one in the same as the interests of the people. And though we know that Trotsky was wrong when saying this, since the means and ends of production were held by the state, Trotsky himself believed the state to be a workers' state, defunct though it may have been. So really our differences here are minute, lose the part about unions enforcing discipline.

I agree - Trotsky was somewhat authoritarian but Id never compare him to Stalin.
As far as Marxism goes Trotskyism isnt the worst.

Black_Cross wrote:

Killuminati wrote:

In War Communism and Terrorism published by Trotsky that year he said The unions should discipline the workers and teach them to place the interests of production above their own needs and demands. It is impossible to distinguish between these policies and the labour policies of Stalin.

Alright, let's not make Trotsky out to be anything near Stalin. I know, Trotsky killed our peeps, and fuck him for it. But hey, he took an ice-pick to the head. Not only that, he forgave the guy (sorta) and saved him from being gunned down. And it's not like you cannot find some merit in this quote. Yes, i can see how this is wrong, but discipline is necessary for the success of the revolution. But it's not the unions who should discipline the workers, it's the workers who should discipline themselves.

And just to add one thing, if the production is in the hands of the people, and not the state (i know Trotsky's stance differs from ours in this respect), then the interests of production are one in the same as the interests of the people. And though we know that Trotsky was wrong when saying this, since the means and ends of production were held by the state, Trotsky himself believed the state to be a workers' state, defunct though it may have been. So really our differences here are minute, lose the part about unions enforcing discipline.

I wasn't comparing him to stalin in all policies....I was just trying to make the connection between that kind of thinking to Stalin kind of thinking....I should have re-worded that better, I used to follow Trotsky ideas for a while so I know he has better ideas than this but...that doesn't lessen the effect from what he said