Are there any other mutualists here?

Posts : 6 Join date : 2008-07-10

I'm interested in finding out if there are any anarcho-individualists here in the tradition of Proudhon and Tucker? From my brief episodes of searching the existing threads, I haven't encountered any.

Subject: Re: Are there any other mutualists here? Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:40 pm

I suppose I am part Individualist in theory, but I believe we should help each other (much like in Socialism, which is Collectivist). I do, however, disagree with some Collectivist aspects such as State Collectivism where you HAVE to do things for society (such as pay taxes).
In reality, I'm more of a Anarcho Syndicalist/Communist (which are both very collectivist types of Anarchism). But I suppose Anarchism in general can be Individualistic for one person and Collectivist for another.

Posts : 6 Join date : 2008-07-10

Unfortunately, many capitalist apologists like David Friedman are trying to adopt anarcho-individualism into their movement as historical accuracy.

Subject: Re: Are there any other mutualists here? Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:17 pm

Prefx wrote:: Unfortunately, many capitalist apologists like David Friedman are trying to adopt anarcho-individualism into their movement as historical accuracy.

"Anarcho" Capitalism is in no way Anarchism.

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Prefx wrote:: I'm interested in finding out if there are any anarcho-individualists here in the tradition of Proudhon and Tucker? From my brief episodes of searching the existing threads, I haven't encountered any.

Anarchists reject capitalist "individualism" as being, to quote Kropotkin, "a narrow and selfish individualism" which, moreover, is "a foolish egoism which belittles the individual" and is "not individualism at all. It will not lead to what was established as a goal; that is the complete broad and most perfectly attainable development of individuality." The hierarchy of capitalism results in "the impoverishment of individuality" rather than its development. To this anarchists contrast "the individuality which attains the greatest individual development possible through the highest communist sociability in what concerns both its primordial needs and its relationships with others in general." [Selected Writings on Anarchism and Revolution, p. 295, p. 296 and p. 297]

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My favorite economic structure would be participatory economics.

Posts : 1 Join date : 2008-07-14

Inkus2000 wrote:: Anarchists reject capitalist "individualism" as being, to quote Kropotkin, "a narrow and selfish individualism" which, moreover, is "a foolish egoism which belittles the individual"

You quote Kropotkin extensively as if that somehow proves some point, that mutualism isn't anarchism now because Kropotkin didn't like it. Never make any concrete argument that you believe, just what Kropotkin believes.

What you also fail to mention is that later on in the letter he says

Kropotkin wrote:: It seems to me that nobody except Ibsen has been able to reach the conception of true individualism; and even he, having foreseen it by an inspiration of genius, did not succeed in expressing it in a comprehensible way. All the same, there is in Ibsen a certain vision of future individualism, which I foresee, and which will be the superior affirmation of individuality. This will be as different from misanthropic bourgeois individualism as from Christian communism and equally hostile to both since they are impediments to the full development of individuality.

Which changes the context of what you quoted wildly. I happen to also disagree with Kropotkin on that mark, but I can't debate against a letter, so if you feel like having a real conversation about this, I'm game.

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joel.davis wrote:

Inkus2000 wrote:: Anarchists reject capitalist "individualism" as being, to quote Kropotkin, "a narrow and selfish individualism" which, moreover, is "a foolish egoism which belittles the individual"

You quote Kropotkin extensively as if that somehow proves some point, that mutualism isn't anarchism now because Kropotkin didn't like it. Never make any concrete argument that you believe, just what Kropotkin believes.

What you also fail to mention is that later on in the letter he says

Kropotkin wrote:: It seems to me that nobody except Ibsen has been able to reach the conception of true individualism; and even he, having foreseen it by an inspiration of genius, did not succeed in expressing it in a comprehensible way. All the same, there is in Ibsen a certain vision of future individualism, which I foresee, and which will be the superior affirmation of individuality. This will be as different from misanthropic bourgeois individualism as from Christian communism and equally hostile to both since they are impediments to the full development of individuality.

Which changes the context of what you quoted wildly. I happen to also disagree with Kropotkin on that mark, but I can't debate against a letter, so if you feel like having a real conversation about this, I'm game.

I wasn't attacking mutualism or trying to assert that it is not anarchism.The quote shows that just because you are an individualist does 'not' mean you cannot be anarchist. I consider the individualism of anarchy of a higher order than the individualism of capitalism/right wing libertarianism. I do not consider mutualist individualism as 'capitalist'.

The quote was from Kropotkin so I am aware of the irony Smile